Pen text selection problems in edge and other apps(fall creator update)

External Issue #14277341

Details

Author
Ricard J.
Created
Oct 17, 2017
Privacy
This issue is public.
Found in
  • Microsoft Edge
Found in build #
16.16299
Reports
Reported by 19 people

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Steps to reproduce

Since fall update I can no longer mark text with the pen by just marking the text by just tapping and dragging from where the words starts until the end. Worked very well in previous version.

Other problems are, double tapping to select word, does not always work, especially when inserting text in input form boxes.

Please add this behaviour back. Very hard to edit and copy text using pen as main input.

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    Comments and activity

    • I don’t know if there’s any change in how pointer events are handled. Pre fall creators update pen input worked flawlessly similar to how mouse works when working with text. Now it’s very clunky, to select and edit text using pen as main input. A big step backwards from how it used to be. If this is intended and not a bug, can you please add an option for to have pen behave more like mouse.

      Double click to select word. Tripple click to select paragraph. Tap and drag to mark text. etc. Current pen functionality is broken and not working well.

    • Pre fall creators update edge was my main goto browser just because it handled pen so extremely well and fluently.

      All other browser has very poor/buggy or non-existent pen support.

    • I have the same problem. I was using Insider versions before and this problem occured in one point of updates. Then I moved back to official release out of Insider versions.

      Now when updated to Fall Creators, I can’t mark in Edge and also some other apps that I use every day.

      I reported of this issue during Insider builds but never got an answer from feedback, twitter or anywhere.

      It seems I have to go back to Creators Update as I can’t use this one.

      So it is not only Edge problem, it’s wider.

    • It seems there has been a change that breaks the way some like me has used to use pen:
      http://pocketnow.com/2017/07/29/windows-10-fall-creators-update

    • And it seems that I know have to press pen button to mark and select text. This really is annoying change.

    • Microsoft Edge Team

      Changed Assigned To to “wptsixtri@microsoft.com”

      Changed Title from “Pen problems in edge (fall creator update)” to “Pen text selection problems in edge (fall creator update)”

      Changed Assigned To to “Grisha L.”

      Changed Status to “By design”

    • Please consider adding an option for pen behaviour in settings, as the current “design” makes the pen useless for anything else than drawing and scribbling.

      And please have some dev compare 1703 and 1709 pen behaviour for editing, marking selecting text. New behaviour is not good design at all.

    • I am having the same issue in MS Edge and other e-pub readers.

    • Hello,

      Thank you for providing this information about the issue. This is by design now. There was a recent change in Pen behavior on Windows (including Edge). In order to extend a selection, the user should press the barrel-button.

      Best Wishes,

      The MS Edge Team

    • Hello,

      I am also very very dissapointed by text selection feature with latest update. I would only point out, that this is not just in edge.

      Another thing I would point out and what I send via feedback hub, but it never good enough upvotes, so I doubt that anyone saw it.

      One thing that is making me mad when using the pen (which I use as a primary input tool - I don’t need a mouse anymore)

      The pen itself does not behave as a mouse pointer which leads into serious issues like:
      You are accidentally hitting your touch pad and so you move the pointer. It usually ends up in positions like upper right corner - yes the Cross that closes active window and with another accidental tap on your touch pad you will close your active window… FUN to work with that…

      I would love to see some update where the PEN movement actually moves mouse pointer and basically behaves as a mouse.

      If anyone at MS team needs some more details I can even record some short video. The only place where the pen works as a mouse is clean desktop, but when you get over some app or start screen with tiles it no longer moves the mouse pointer.

      Please, very please have this addressed as it would make my life way easier and will make me love my Surafce Book even more :-)

    • I skipped the info that we should use the barrel button - that is awesome feature. Thank you.
      But it does not fix the main issue only text selection. The issue is… when you use PEN as primary tool you down want to select the text then go to your keyboard and press the shortcut for copy…

      with your new design I can select the text nicely indeed… but when the text is selected and I press the barrel button again… guess what… it deselects the text so I can no longer use copy / paste… this needs to be addressed asap please. It made the PEN much less useful.

      I hope you can find a way how to keep the selection with barrel button - which is really cool, but we need to have a chance to select and copy text with just PEN itself. Thanks a lot for investigating and adjusting this feature :-)

    • I agree with the other comments about pen selection. I am very disappointed with the new behavior. Previously it was trivially easy to get the scroll behavior while holding the pen at the same time as using your finger.

      l use the pen as a primary mouse/touchpad replacement.

      Having to press the barrel button is more work/ less convenient. This post brought to you_ from my Surface Pro 4.

    • It’s so awful to use in the Fall Creators Update. What’s worse is that some devices like the Samsung Galaxy Book don’t have a barrel button that works for selection.

    • Luckily chrome has a setting in about:flags to disable pen scrolling and is now the better option for pen users. Text selection in chrome is superior at the moment. Have to switch browser or revert to 1703 until a fix for this is implemented.

    • this needs to go back to how it was before the creators update asap. I don’t want to use the pen to scroll up and down… that’s what touch is for. I want to use it to select text - without having to press a heavy button…
      Also there are many other apps including MS Word that you cant highlight unless you press the button… that is so cumbersome and counter intuitive. Please revert this back or at least give a setting to change it back…

    • I’ve posted elsewhere about this issue.

      I have been using stylus input only on Windows tablets since 2007. Creators Update Fall has, with the changes in stylus behaviour, been the single biggest misstep MS has aimed at pen users in all that time.

      How did this change get approval?

      I’m grateful to Ricard J for pointing out the option available in Chrome. So now I can switch my default browser from Edge to Chrome. Home run there MS, just what you need, an ex-Edge user.

      Unfortunately this “by design” calamity has broken other programmes I rely on for my work ,such as Serif’s PhotoPlus, so I am now investigating whether I can contemplate a 100% move from Windows to Samsung’s Galaxy Androd tablets. A few year’s ago this would have seemed utterly crazy but with MS giving as much love to their Office suite on Android/iOS as Windows I suspect it might work.

      Q. How bad does a design process need to be so as to drive a loyal 10 year plus user to the competition’s OS.

      A. This bad.

      P.S. And the replacement of the fully featured Qwerty keyboard with a finger friendly cut-down version managed to chalk up yet another spectacular own goal.

    • Changed Status from “By design”

    • Edge Team? Can we please have a setting in about:flags to disable pen scrolling? We don’t need another finger. We already have 10 working. Pen is a precision tool and not a 100$ extra finger.

      Text selection with barrel button? Who came up with that idea? Doesn’t work for pens without barrel botton. And if you have one, how do you right click and open context menu, for copy paste functions etc. without deselection? It doesn’t work.

      Did anyone try this before implementing?

      Reopening issue.

      This needs a fix or be forwarded to another department that handles pen input.

    • My sentiments exactly. I don’t know who was on the decision making team, but it is more than annoying. Simple decisions like these can discourage people from choosing Microsoft products and alienates existing customers. Please do more research before implementing these, or at least add the option to use the previous behavior for input.

    • l agree with all the following comments. Besides, squeezing the button requires way to much force for accurate selection. This will probably cause repetitive motion injuries over time.

      The pen is not a mouse. Mouse buttons are carefully tuned to reduce strain. The pen barrel button feels more akin to the trigger pull on a pistol. Its seems tuned to avoid accidental triggerings.

      I too would like to select in pen behavior. This needs fixing. I realize that I am not tending to shift my work back to mousing. Since the mouse’s behavior in selectable, why are you limiting the pen? It might be good to listen to your customer’s input here.

      This behavior is frustrating.

    • I read Ricard’s post above about Chrome having a flag to disable pen scrolling. For 2 hours I searched for that option, can’t find it anywhere.

      And I still don’t understand why would a bunch of well paid developers make such stupid decisions as that of disabling text selection in favor of page scrolling with a pen. In what mental status should they be to think this is a feature of the new update. This is plain awkward, in line with other signs that MS cannot keep in track with the success of Surface tablets, with the various departments completely disconnected.

      Beside this issue, I just had another horrible experience with MS customer service. They lost a Surface pen I sent and left me without a pen for over a month. More and more hints of MS irresponsible people.

    • D.P . I have some bad news for you. The flag is called. “Direct Manipulation Stylus” but Chrome decided to break that feature, so if you selelct that option, you will disable other features as well, such as:

      • Touch keyboard not firing on input boxes while using pen.
      • Double click with pen is no longer recognized.

      Maybe more stuff as well that I havn’t found yet.

      At this moment there is no browser that supports the pen well in Fall Creators Update (1709)

      • Edge no lunger supports text selection with pen, and is scrolling as default behaviour. Which can break drag and drop functionality in web apps. Barrel button can be used to selct the old way, but clicking the barrel button again will remove selection, and display contect menu with "read out loud".

      I want copy selection not read it out loud. You are forced to have “tap and hold” enabled for pen to copy selection. That’s the only fonctioning way to get the correct contecxt menu when trying to copy. Tap and Hold, which i always turn off, because it can conflict with drawing software when you do fine detail work. You will accidentally tap&hold when drawing too slow.

      Chrome breaks other things. As mentioned above you can turn off scrolling but other features are turned off too.

      Firefox you can select text as usual, and copy text, but they don’t have an option to turn off pen scrolling,so you will scroll and select at the same time.

      The only option at this moment is to revert to 1703. Before fall creators update. I don’t know what kind of retard you have to be to not test these kind of things beforehand, or add an off swich. It seems like someone just requested, "It would be cool if you could scroll with the pen", then someone at the department implemented it and pushed it live without any testing whatsover. Pen scrolling is conflicting with a lot of things in several softwares.

      • Some drawaing programs scroll when you want to draw.
      • Some programs scroll when you want to drag and drop.
      • Some programs scroll when you want to mark text.

      I keep 1709 on my secondary computer to keep track of any progress here, but on my main work computer i was forced to revert, and stop 1709 from installing. I’m fearing one day I will be forced to upgrade, and I hope they came to theis senses and removed or add an off switch for pen scrolling, and allow people to use pen like the old behaviour.

    • This is a huge issue for me as well. I use a browser based tutoring space for my work, and I am unable to draw within it now using ANY browser in this windows update. I have a Wacom penabled windows 10 tablet that I purchased in January specifically for this work, and now it is unusable. I’ve also noticed that in pen and touch settings, there is no distinction between the press and hold to right click for pen, and for touch. i.e. if I enable touch press and hold for right click, the pen also behaves that way! This seems to be an OS wide change.

      Please, as others have mentioned, revert this back to the expected (and useful) behavior, where the pen functions the same as a mouse, and can be used to click and drag, etc. If I wanted to use the pen to scroll, I would set a button to do that! As it is now, I can’t even use the barrel button to click and drag, even if I set the barrel button to function as a left click.

      This has seriously broken the functionality that I use this Windows 10 tablet for, and if that’s what we can expect from “updates” then I will probably not be buying another Windows 10 device with a stylus.

    • @Andrew

      Since there doesn’t seem to be any interest to remove pen scrolling, and the fact that Chrome has jumped on the pen scrolling bandwagon, I’ve checked the other browser alternatives. Chrome has a setting in about:flags to disable pen scrolling but that can break other pen functionality.

      Firefox seem to be the answer for now.

      Pen users who experiences text selection problems, and other pen related problems should try firefox out. It selects text as old behavior and does, and does not scroll on pen input. So no conflicts with other behavior, such as drawing, drag and drop, etc.

      Just make sure you set the flag ‘ui.osk.detect_physical_keyboard’ in ‘about:config’ to disabled. Otherwise you can have problem with firefox not firing the touch keyboard when tapping input fields with the pen.

      Hope that helps.

      I’m tired of switching browsers every other week, because they break pen behavior. At least firefox is the best option for now. And really hope they never implement that idiotic pen scrolling.

    • Yeah, I’ve found chrome works ok for now with that flag, but I’m sure that option will be removed soon… I am so sick of important functionality being removed with no option for customization. Another example, the touch keyboard on my tablet is a phone numpad… So frustrating and nothing I can do about it. It’s like Windows is trying to turn their full fledged OS into an iOS clone… I hope the file explorer isn’t gone in the next update :(

    • For what it’s worth I posted a complaint yesterday to an online Windows 10 space Q&A dedicated to Fall Creators Update.

      See here - https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Windows-10/Windows-10-v1709-AMA-Why-has-Creators-Update-Fall-treated/m-p/132978#M568

      I’ve received asking I contact the Windows Ink team which I’ve just done. My email is copied below. I’ll update this thread as and when I get a response.

      Hello,

      Jerry Koh (MS) reached out to me following my posting of a complaint about the negative stylus impact of Fall Creators Update. He suggested I direct my complaint to the Windows Ink team hence this email. For ease of reference the complaint I posted is here:

      https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Windows-10/Windows-10-v1709-AMA-Why-has-Creators-Update-Fall-treated/m-p/132978#M568

      To set the scene I have been using a slate style Windows PC since 2007 – with OneNote being the defining reason for this pen centric choice of hardware. Given the length of time invested in this setup it will not surprise you to learn the three current slate PC’s I rotate my work between are all Wacom EMR penabled, as is my Galaxy Note 5, bought solely to permit integrated OneNote note taking on the go.

      Up until updating my PC’s with FCU I was exceedingly happy with my pen centric way of working and quite frankly at a loss to understand why more folks hadn’t abandoned mouse/touchpad/physical keyboard input. I mention Wacom in the knowledge MS are now heavily invested in N-trig’s active stylus and FCU might possibly be a pure delight for this type of pen user and negatively impacting only Wacom EMR users, who do not represent the future for MS pen input. Many Wacom styli do not feature a barrel switch, including my favourite current stylus, which must surely deserve a prize for coolest digital pen 2017 - https://www.staedtler.com/en/noris-digital/?_ga=2.8481456.464738076.1512119776-1068593250.1512119776

      On the assumption MS has not deliberately thrown under a bus a large section of the pen using community, legacy or not, I must therefore conclude the recent change in stylus behaviour is impacting all pen users equally – and in the eyes of many this has been a major step backwards.

      To illustrate my point succinctly I drew attention to the fact that pen flicks and navigation is now simply impossible to use given the recent change in stylus behaviour following FCU. I fully appreciate this productivity tool is used by only a small section of pen users but I can no more understand why this feature is overlooked by so many pen users than I can understand why so few PC users cling to the mouse/touchpad/physical keyboard.

      If this was the only negative change (grievous though it would be to me personally) it would be regrettable but we all have to accept changes occur which you must learn to live with. Unfortunately it is not and the negative issues run much deeper. The inability to easily highlight text then bring up a drop down window, as per usual mouse interaction, makes simple everyday actions a massive chore and dramatically reduces the ease and advantage of using a pen as the primary input method. Not an ink issue I know but coupled with the bizarre decision to drop the fully featured on-screen keyboard from the keyboard button (and yes I know I can still access a fully featured keyboard within settings) and replace with a finger friendly cutdown alternative has made using the pen a complete nightmare.

      As I’ve mentioned in complaints posted elsewhere the difficulty the change within FCU was flagged up pre RTM but no heed was paid – see here http://pocketnow.com/2017/07/29/windows-10-fall-creators-update

      If you would like to see a flavour of the problems other users are experiencing post RTM you can look here - https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/issues/14277341/ - where I have added my own voice to the proceedings.

      Apologies for the lengthy email but this has so badly impacted my work flow, including making it impossible to interact with my Photo Editing software using a pen, that I felt it worthwhile taking time out to discover whether these changes are an unforeseen and unintended consequence which will be reversed or the new stylus behaviour is how MS understand pen users wish to use their tool and will remain as is.

      I look forward to your response.

    • I use my pen most of the time and I set it up just like a mouse. Left click, middle click, and right click. Easy to use and easy to switch between pen and mouse. The fall creators update ruins my ability to work that way. If you haven’t noticed the first thing windows pen users do is turn off the microsoft pen tools so we can actually work. We want less interference from you not more for the love of god please I need to work!!!1

    • My issue is not specific to edge. I was able to correct the scroll issue by unchecking “Use Windows Ink” in the Mapping tab of the Wacom tablet settings. However, “press and hold” to right click is not working at all.

    • Hi Rosa, just to clarify, you’re talking about the settings for a separate Wacom tablet? That connects with USB right? Just wanted to double check, because I would love for a Wacom setting to fix it, but I don’t have any such setting in the Wacom FeelDriver (for penabled tablets).

      As far as the press and hold to right click, there seems to also be a bug tying the pen to touch here as well. I can’t enable it in touch, but disable it for pen, even though I can see the checkmarks on the appropriate tabs, the behavior doesn’t line up. If you’re using an external tablet, you might not have touch functionality, so I don’t know if you have both a “touch” and a “pen” tab in the Pen and Touch Settings in control panel, but if you do, have you tried enabling it in both?

    • “James M. ‎Nov‎ ‎4‎, ‎2017 Microsoft Edge Team
      Hello,
      Thank you for providing this information about the issue. This is by design now. There was a recent change in Pen behavior on Windows (including Edge). In order to extend a selection, the user should press the barrel-button.
      Best Wishes,
      The MS Edge Team”
      Are you guys serious there? Is this one by design too? https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-touch/pen-issues-after-the-fall-creator-update/089a9aed-bbed-4a47-9d4c-6bbad0075f9d?tm=1512345123939&auth=1

    • @Andrew M. Yes, there is a setting in the Wacom Tablet Properties app… this is for a Wacom USB connected Intuos Pen & Touch tablet.

      @James M - Microsoft Edge Team. Using the button on the pen defeats the purpose. I use a pen as a result of injury and fine motor movements using my fingers is painful. With the drag/select, and press and hold to right click I can do most things using my whole hand/wrist. Please give an option to change this behavior.

    • To all those posting about their pen issues here following the bizarre FCU update.

      As most already know this issue is far wider than just Edge. Advice received elsewhere from MS is to direct all these problems, the more detaled the better, to WindowsInk@microsoft.com

      This is the team that has visited this abomination upon us pen users, so it will be that team which needs to undo it.

      The Edge rep was simply stating a fact when he said it was by design - Windows Ink not Edge.

    • It might be by design (no matter if Edge or OS) not everybody likes the behaviour and hence making it optional would have been the better/more respectful way.
      https://aka.ms/Uondua

    • Re Andy R

      Don’t disagree but the misstep has occured. The job now is to get MS to recognise the error of their ways and put this right. I was informed the folks to do that are in the WindowsInk team not the Edge team. We need to bear down on those responsible and not the innocent bystander.

    • Ageed! Hence I also posted the link to my Feedback Hub comment for people who drop in here to maybe upvote it to get MS to take that plea serious and exhert pressure on the people responsible ;-)

    • BTW,the same thing happened on Chrome, Firefox, OneNote, … forums where this new OS behaviour led to bug reports on their forums.
      So the innocent bystanders should maybe also raise the voice not to fall victim to colateral damage.

    • Andy R.
      I’ve already made a bug report on Adobe user voice portal. At first was not sure where the problem is, because for me Windows 10 and Adobe CC all updated in one day. The more we spread this - the quicker fixes will come. As a representative at Microsoft told me - they made this scroll with pen because of users feedback. We are in minority because most people just surf the web and want to scroll it with their pen - they don’t need to interact with any serious software or advanced web apps. The irony here is that we still have half backed (compared to Windows 8) tablet mode, but now we, pen users, can’t use even desktop as it is supposed to.

    • MonteR x
      I’m sure you’re correct. But that makes it a double blunder on the part of MS.
      They should have called it Fall Consumers Update.

    • @Patrick L. & @MonteR x.
      If I only want to surf the web I’d go for an Android tablet or maybe even the bitten fruit. And if they wanted to have touch behaviour with a stylus MS could donate one capacitive pen tip for their pen to evirate an active pen.

      MS should focus on productive folk - the market for passive consumers is already lost to other OSs and won’t be won back with such decisions either.

    • “Patrick L. 3 hours ago
      They should have called it Fall Consumers Update.”
      first wanted to point this out, but thought it will be a little mean here in the Edge section. but i’m sure i posted somewhere something about the irony of the update’s name

    • This issue reminds me of a book titled "Save capitalism from capitalists", who warned against monopolist-like companies that are turning classic capitalism into a bunch of well paid irresponsible managers. If we had other alternatives to Windows, the developers of the Falls Creator Update that compromised the pen functionality - by design or by accident - would have been fired by now. Instead they keep getting outstanding salaries and don’t even deign to come here and talk to customers.

      I think getting those people fired is more important than fixing the pen. We should get a petition for it. The pen can be fixed in a few months by good hackers, but bad managers will only get worse with time. Only public effort can make these companies move away from the icebergs that their managers don’t see.

    • “D P.
      Instead they keep getting outstanding salaries and don’t even deign to come here and talk to customers.”
      I think you are a bit confused. As I already mentioned, they actually came out and answered our questions. This is not the right place, because the issue is not with Edge.
      This is a more relevant place to complain about this issue https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Windows-10/Windows-10-v1709-AMA-Why-has-Creators-Update-Fall-treated/m-p/133697#M581

    • I hate this new functionality. It affects all my browsers, including Firefox, despite what Richard J. saying about Firefox seeming to be the best option? It also affects some of my programs (scroll bars unusable with the pen).
      Mircrosoft NEEDS to revert back to the old functionality because this is absolutely unusable for people who rely on pens.

    • It’s been two month and there was no word from MS regarding this issue.

      I am going to install ubuntu to see how things works there.

      2017 is the year when MS follows new company code: If it works we can kill it. And we won’t give a damn about customers because why would we… lol

    • Death off Surface Tablet, the Fall update has slowed my work down to a point, that I am now not upgrading to the latest surface, and trying to locate an alternative, just now a typo can not even point to the area have to go to the front or end of the word then use the arrows, pathetic, I now have a blue O that gets in the way, can not easily cut and paste, so a minute become minutes to type, want to save a file (pdf) need to create a folder, damn explorer closes up can not see a thing. Have to stop! go into explorer create the folder, go back to edge and then save, what the hell back to the 90’s. Really MS test before you release, very unprofessional, whole industry is going dumb with facebook/twitter/google mentality business people still need good tools, maybe apple is the way go bugger been with MS since 93 …—…

    • Hi Everyone,

      I developed and patented the World’s most efficient Multi-Mode Gesture Based Interface called EditRight Software.

      EditRight Software represents a blazingly fast and accurate way to edit content on a Windows Tablet in Microsoft Word using an integrated pen.

      I mean EditRight Software use to represent a blazing fast and accurate way to edit content on a Windows Tablet, until I updated my Surface Tablet to the latest version of Windows Fall Creators Update.

      It is now almost impossible to properly select a block of text.

      Even when I manage to select a block of text then try to draw a stroke of ink all that happens is a scrolling event.

      When is Microsoft going to provide an option to disable this feature?

      This is the same problem that occurred when ink was made the default mode of interaction in Office Products.

      Everyone complained and eventually Microsoft provided an option to give back the ability to select a block of text with a pen.

      You should always provide an OFF switch when you make a significant change to the fundamental interaction between a pen and Windows OS or applications.

      Sincerely,

      Sean Maxted, President and CEO
      Natural Input Solutions Inc.
      http://www.naturalinputsolutions.com

    • I am using the Surface 2. I find that in browsers, finger selection no longer works. You must double-tap and use the blue handles to highlight. Pen works fine. I wonder if this came from the recent updates. Very bothersome! I wish MS used focus groups to test stuff before rollout. Argh!

    • I rolled back to 1703 on my Surface as well … default pen to scrolling is senseless … having to push a button to select text is not productive. Browsers that support drag and drop no long functioned as expected.
      MS need to change the default pen functionality back.

    • When I use the pen and tablet on my computer in the websites, when I try to draw, it does not let me draw at all and scrolls with where the pen is going only. It never was just as this before the update happened. Is their a way to fix this?

    • @Edge team, could you push this issue to inking team? So far it seems that nobody at MS is giving a damn about our problem that is ruining our everyday work life!!!

      To highlight that you have a problem in Edge as well… look at Add notes feauture of Edge.
      Did you notice that we can no longer crop using PEN?! We NEED to use mouse, because PEN or finger does not do the job!

      I would really love to see someone finally notice the ISSUE make it public and finally gave us some info WHEN it is going to be fixed.

      I am a patient person, but you need to understand that I bought Surface Book specifically for it’s unique features and PEN! Now we are heading into 3rd month where is my piece of Hardware an ordinary overpriced laptop!

      I know you are not responsible for this abomination, but I suppose it should not be a problem for you internally contact another department and tell them how people feel about this update.

      MS showed back on Consumers don’t do the same to business!

    • Seems like this bug report thread is getting bigger and bigger, and I doubt there’s anything edge team can do.

      I would suggest people experiencing pen behaviour problems after Fall Creators Update send an email to WindowsInk@microsoft.com detailing the issues.

      There’s also a thread on Microsoft Tech Community. Where you can write about your experiences, as Microsoft officials seem to watch the threads there, and sometimes reply.
      https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Windows-10/Windows-10-v1709-AMA-Why-has-Creators-Update-Fall-treated/m-p/132722#M448

      Other options to get our voices heard are the Feedback hub. And bugging them on twitter.
      https://twitter.com/WindowsInk

      Pen as a tool, used by professionals needs options to customize the behaviour, and to turn off bad functionality like this that can disrupt our workflow.

    • there must be a language issue, microsoft do not understand common english, as so many advise of the same problem, there answer click the barrel, MS (Microsoft) is now become BS (you know the rest). Maybe these people Grisha L and James M have since Nov.5 2017 taken up positions at Apple, after designing this major FLAW

    • Microsoft Edge Team

      Changed Assigned To to “James M.”

    • Hello Everyone:

      Thank you for providing all this information about the issue. I have read all of your feedback and understand the high demand to provide a solution to these problems. I agree the most elegant way to resolve this is to allow users to choose/toggle between the old and new pen behavior.

      This is not an Edge browser issue, but I will do everything I can to push this issue with the correct team. I will follow it diligently and pursue it to fruition.

      Best Wishes,
      The MS Edge Team

    • Microsoft Edge Team

      Changed Assigned To to “Grisha L.”

    • Brilliant. Thanks for responding to this issue and please push this through to the team asap, as we cannot use our devices or programs in the way we should be able to. It is affecting our work, and many are thinking of going to an ipad pro if this isn’t sorted soon.

    • It is so good that it is finally reopened.

      Thank you for this small xmass present.
      Merry Christmas to everyone.

    • Thank you very much! 😊

    • Hey everyone, I’m having the same problem with the new behaviour. It happens for me in Firefox and other browsers. I don’t seem to have a problem in Adobe apps… so far, but the browser behaviour is just weird.

      I use a Wacom tablet with a desktop PC. I operate my PC with 80% Wacom and 20% mouse perhaps. My PC is not and will never be a tablet, not a convertible, not touch screen at all. I wish I could disable everything that even hints at being aimed at touch users from my Windows installation because I have a DESKTOP PC. Touch is irrelevant to me! My Wacom pen should function like a mouse pointer, not like a finger.

      It seemed Wacom finally worked ok since Windows 7 (ah the joys of trying to disable the endless ridiculous cursor rings and ripples) and now they mess it up again.

      I also had to go into the registry to disable the “press and hold for right click” because even though I disabled it in the pen options, it still happened. Turned out it was enabled for "touch", for which there is a seperate setting in the registry, but nowhere in the control or settings panels. I have a “pen and touch” panel in the control panel, but it only shows “pen options” and nothing for touch. Nice design.

      Please MS, a lot of people still use regular old desktop PC’s that will never have anything to do with touch.

      Hopefully we can get an option to go back to previous, correct and expected behaviour for (Wacom) pens.

    • Microsoft Edge Team

      Changed Title from “Pen text selection problems in edge (fall creator update)” to “Pen text selection problems in edge and other apps(fall creator update)”

      Changed Assigned To to “Sha V.”

      Changed Status to “External”

    • Hi, could you confirm the return to the old pen behavior will solve the problem we experience in Excel 2010 ? We can select an object or a picture but can’t drag it unless we press the barrel button. But most of our tablets don’t have such a button and hence are useless !

    • Hello All,

      We are marking this issue as a duplicate of an existing internal bug report. I will relay the resolution once the pen team resolves the main case.

      We look forward to additional feedback you may have on how we can improve Microsoft Edge.

      Best Wishes,
      The MS Edge Team

    • Hi, I’m really pleased to see that this issue is making headway. I’ve been very disappointed and frustrated by the new pen behavior and want it returned to original as well.

    • Hi also are please that finally Microsoft is being attentive to the issue, let us hope it is resolved by 18th Jan, the 3 month point (when first raised here). I believe that the new MS Whiteboard option may have been the precursor to this issue, maybe there needs to be a smarter pen, so you can simply change modes to suit the task eg Office mode, Browsing mode and Custom Mode 1 and 2

    • Hi I want to chime in here too. I am just a plain old user not a creator or professional. I want Microsoft to know that this change on the pen is not just an inconvenience to the pro’s who use the pen for a living its effecting the consumer who was happy highlighting text in a variety of apps. You have turned a $130 pen into a mouse. If i want to click and drag I will pull my windows 95 pc out of my storage shed and click and drag with my mouse all I want but here in 2018 i would like to go back to using my surface and pen. But to do that you need to give us back what you took.
      Thanks

    • Please do not bring this problem to a simple text selecting issue. Its a lot more that this. Right now pen acts as 11 finger. There is slight delay when pen touches screen in programs like blender, and you cant for example move/split windows. All off this actions require double taping the screen, its annoying as hell. Right now all pen based devices require windows 8.1/linux to be useful. Im looking forward for this change to at last give user a option to choose.

    • I have a Surface 3 and a Microsoft pen. Before the update I could touch the screen when viewing a picture and drag it across, can’t do it now.
      For example :
      https://albulatunnel.roundshot.com/
      moves across the screen itself very slowly, I could drag it along at speed. To high light the web site I have to press and hold the pen, before dragging it would highlight the full line and I could copy it. A couple of games I play are not letting me drag things around the screen.

    • This update seems affect a lot of other programs including image processors like Paint.NET, Adobe image programs, other web browsers and many others. It has completely ruined all of my work flow in editing images, selecting text and everything else mentioned in the before comments. It’s disruption to productivity will cost people a lot of money.

    • Hi, any idea when to expect this patch ? We have to take some difficult decisions if this takes too long !

    • This change is so bad, I would honestly believe Microsoft if they told us it was an act of sabotage, and had been implemented by a disgruntled employee as the update was being pushed out.

      Instead, they are telling us that it is by design?! Let me share another anecdote detailing the far reaching consequences of this "design". I use a tablet PC with touch and pen functionality, previously in the Control Panel, Pen and Touch Settings, I could ENABLE press and hold for right click for TOUCH, and DISABLE it for the PEN. That functionality has been lost. The checkboxes are there, and the registry entries respond accordingly, but the behavior is wrong. Because they have turned pen input into a touch at the most basic level, the pen option is now useless, and is always superseded by the touch option. This means I need to open Control Panel and change a setting EVERY TIME I switch from using touch to pen!! I have checked this setting on multiple devices at the Microsoft Store, and all behave in the same objectively wrong fashion. Sadly, the “fix” for this bug will probably be to remove the pen option in the next update, instead of making it work as intended.

      I spent about 2 hours tonight in chat with MS “Support” and basically got transferred to someone new everytime I mentioned “pen” and "1709". After all this, someone gave me a phone number and told me to call support. So I did that, and waited on hold for 20 minutes, finally was connected to a person, described my issue, and was immediately put on hold again. After about 15 minutes on hold, the call was disconnected. I don’t think I’ll be buying a Microsoft touchscreen or pen device ever again.

    • Wow that is disgustingly bad suppor Andrew. MS should be ashamed. That being said, I don’t think any support rep could have helped you with this issue as it (amazingly) is "by design", although the non-working fucntionality of the press and hold for right click configuration is a bug I think. Personally I also had this issue but once I disabled the press and hold for right click in the registry for both touch and pen, it was disabled for my (Wacom) pen finally and stayed that way.
      I do think MS are aware of the issues generated by this new pen/touch/ink/whatever implementation and I have some hope that an update will at least provide us users with a switch between old and new behaviour. It’s absolutely unbelievable that such a change that breaks so much functionality was pushed through to users in the first place though.

    • Thanks for looking in to this Edge team.

      I know the new pen behaviour is not directly an edge issue, but since the new behaviour affects a lot of various web-applications and it’s quite critical that it will get a fix ASAP.

      I think pen scrolling was introduced by popular demand (voted up on feedback hub), so they had to rework several other functionality in order for scrolling to work, along with text selection and other things.

      Apart from the Text selection, the pen scrolling anti-feature can interfere with common web-apps with functionalities like:

      • Drag&Drop
      • Selection and manipulation of objects.
      • Drawing
        … to name a few.

      Regarding edge, there’s a lot of web-apps that used to work really well with Pen input in 1703. But are now very hard to use because of the new pen behaviour.

      I have also filed bugs or contacted support for some app developers to ask for workarounds but since we’re not that many pen users that use pen for other things than casual browsing, it’s hard to get app devs to create fixes and workarounds for such a small minority that does use pen/touch instead of mouse/keyboard.

      I think it’s important that Pen input has a setting to mimic Mouse behaviour rather than touch when there is no special code to accommodate pen.

    • “since we’re not that many pen users that use pen for other things than casual browsing, it’s hard to get app devs to create fixes and workarounds for such a small minority that does use pen/touch instead of mouse/keyboard.”

      Perhaps, but let’s not forget that these last two updates have been pushed specifically as "creator’s updates", not "casual browser updates". I would think that especially “creators” are people who will use pens a lot. And it seems that MS also tends to forget that virtually everyone in the design industry uses Wacom tablets, which continually suffer from MS’s messy implementation of pen and touch. To simply break a whole list of other functionality in favour of some upvotes for pen scrolling does not exactly seem like a good tradeoff.

    • But at least Wacom drivers has a setting to completely disable windows ink for specific apps, to get old behaviour back. Although disabling this also disables pressure sensitivity for some apps I guess.

      It’s completely beyond me how this change made it through before checking with creative professionals first, that actually use pen and styluses on a daily basis for all or most of their work.

      As for the name "Creators Update". I haven’t seen anything so far targeted towards creators. Windows Ink seems to be targeting students who scroll pages with pen while researching, and who want to scribble in OneNote, and middle managers who wanna scroll and scribble in PDF files etc. with their pen.

      WindowsInk team seems completely out of touch with the creative community that actually Uses tablets and Styluses for their day to day work.

      I can only speak for myself, but as a creator I want control / highly customizable buttons & settings to make my workflow faster and better to suit my needs for the specific tasks. I don’t want a team of devs to slap on a system wide pen scrolling/change the way I select text, or other feature that I can’t disable that completely disrupts my workflow.

      I don’t mind the new features as long as they come with off switches and customization options.

    • But as someone who sits squarely in both camps, heavily using both photo editing software and the likes of OneNote, Word etc. it fails both creators and administrators terribly.

      It seems to me the only beneficiaries are people who use their pen to do nothing other than to scroll up and down web pages . No different to those rubber edged capacitive pencils that iPhone users sometimes sport before realising they can use their finger instead.

      This design decision is an utter catastrophy, nothing less. The Windows Ink team should collectively hang their heads in shame.

      I’m only perservering in the daily wading through treacle that Windows 10 use, across the board, for pen centric users has become because someone with enough intelligence in the Edge team has recognised the damage this asinine decision has caused.

    • "No different to those rubber edged capacitive pencils that iPhone users sometimes sport before realising they can use their finger instead.", exactly what I thought.
      Instead of investing loads of time into ruining perfectly working code to something that useless, M$ could have opted to donate a free capacitive tip to everybody who upvoted that nonsensical proposal to castrate the active pens to cater for the fact that they seem to forget that the very fingers they are holding their pens with can actually be straightened out to - … beware … drum roll … - touch the touch screen for doing the same thing.

      But that is just one of these nonsens ideas like inverting the numpad keys like on a phone while all desktop keyboards and calculators have the 1,2,3 keys in the bottom row. They also stated this was public demand and backed it up with some “pseudo-scientific” studies.
      Strangely enough the guy who tried to sell this as a major improvement had to take his hat not long after.

      BTW, the touch keyboard behaviour in Win 10 has been a major regression compared to Win8.1 (e.g. when docked half of an app is not accessible - just as was with 8.0 - but with 8.1 got repaird by reducing the available screen size for applications and triggered them to resize accordingly causing scrollbars to appear).
      I reported this in multiple categories English & German years ago but still noch change.
      The same as resizing the keyboard on big screens - they even prevented registry hacks that used to work for that.

      Hence I don’t hold hopes for the pen issue to get resolved anytime soon (years from now).

    • l have lost hope. This is a critical bug especially for Surface customers. They didnt test impact of new behavior… They keep ignoring this issue for month When this was supposed to be fixed asap in one of tuesday updates… yet nothing happens. then treat it as Low priority Bug even through it impacts whole premium MS HW product line.

      Please tell me What kind of arrogant idiot one has to be to advertise pencentric products, ask for very high price and then treat you as some lab rat?

      For me its over. MS screwed everything they touched in 2017 and I Strongly believe that this insane level of incompetence must be done on purpose.

      Someone at MS is trying hard to destroy this company and will succeed. MS lives from loyal customers and some areas of monopoly. But there is so much competition that people will have working alternative to everything they need.

      I started to move away from MS services slowly and will not come back until I see that MS management isnt bribed by Whoever to kill this company!

      l am not mad, l am sad to see whats happening to company that was able to deliver great products…

    • Michiel, yes, as I mentioned I am able to disable press and hold for pen by disabling it for touch, but I would really like to have it enabled for touch (I don’t have barrel buttons on my finger, haha). As it is though, I can’t do that, and was hoping to just get some acknowledge mentioned from support that this is a bug, maybe even be told it’s being worked on in an insider build (I know, just dreaming).

      I think my only hope at this point is that Wacom put their “disable windows ink” option into the feel driver for penabled tablets, as they have it for external tablets. I’ve reached out to someone there, but don’t know if they will make that decision or not. It’s sad you have to ask all the other companies you can to fix MS issues.

    • This is not specifically related to Microsoft Edge but appears to be internally related to a breaking change in messaging behavior.

      I have the following code in our WindowProc routine that is supposed to detect if an event is a touch event and whether or not the event originated from a pen input device:

         #define TOUCH_MASK         0x00000080
      
         #define SOURCE_MASK        0x000000FF
      
         #define SIGNATURE_MASK     0xFFFFFF00
      
         #define MI_WP_SIGNATURE    0xFF515700
      
         #define IsPenDevice(dw)    (((dw) & TOUCH_MASK) == 0)
      
         #define IsTouchDevice(dw)  (((dw) & TOUCH_MASK) == TOUCH_MASK)
      
         #define IsTouchEvent(dw)   (((dw) & SIGNATURE_MASK) == MI_WP_SIGNATURE)
      
      
      
         // Is this a pen or touch input message
      
         LPARAM lMessageExtraInfo = GetMessageExtraInfo();
      
         BOOL bPenInput = (IsTouchEvent(lMessageExtraInfo) && IsPenDevice(lMessageExtraInfo)) ? TRUE : FALSE;
      
         BOOL bTouchInput = (IsTouchEvent(lMessageExtraInfo) && IsTouchDevice(lMessageExtraInfo)) ? TRUE : FALSE;
      

      This has worked perfectly on all supported currently Microsoft operating systems (e.g., Windows 7, Windows 8[.1], and Windows 10) since it was implemented in March of 2014. Since the Windows 10 Fall Creator’s Update we have received numerous customer complaints (and confirmed them to be accurate) that the pen input reacts and behaves like a single finger touch event. This would indicate that IsPenDevice(…) macro is returning FALSE. That would imply that your pen device handler (not the driver, but your handling of driver I/O) is not propagating the 0x80 bit to the message queue.

      Our user base is composed of roughly 500,000 users with a wide range of system configurations – many of which have selected the Microsoft Surface [Pro/Book/etc.] as their primary device. Since Microsoft updates tend to occur silently, many of those users are suddenly finding their pens as useless finger proxies. Your changes are affecting customers that are running older version of our product that are no longer under active support. This issue is more than just an inconvenience, it is a breaking change to existing functionality and behavior.

      Having worked with Microsoft support (in various forms) since 1992, I am keenly aware of the glacial speed of getting fixes into the pipeline and out to the masses. Hotfixes are generally the quickest solution but have their own baggage. I know your cutoff for the next major rollout is probably already past. The FCU edition is one of the worst release I have seen (even surpassing Windows 8/8.1 and Vista).

      Please provide me with C++ code snippets that will return the pen/touch functionality to its previous behavior.

      P.S.

      FWIW, this is just one of the MANY regressions in legacy Windows applications introduced in FCU.

    • In the past I wsa impressed with Surface Pro 3, and told every friend and colleague to buy it. I even refused a MacBook Air that was given to me by the employee. A few months ago I upgraded to Surface Pro 2017, and spent $2,000 between the laptop and accessories. Just after that, Microsoft pushed the update that broke the pen functionality, no more marking scientific papers on the browser, so the subscription to Diigo became almost worthless. No solution is provided until now.

      As to customer support I tell you my story. I found a small problem with the pen and sent it back for replacement. At first I was told it will take just few days to receive the new pen. Later I was told it will take 2 weeks, so the first agent had lied to me. The streak of lies kept going on an on, for about two months. They could see that my pen was received by their service but they had lost track after that. I spent over 6 hours of phone calls calling them every few days for over two months. Each time they lied, and lied, and lied. The lies spanned from "somebody will call back within 2 hours", to "we will send the new pen the next day". Nobody took any responsibility, I talked with supervisors and normal agents. At some point, I started recording phone calls (and informed them). I asked them to send back mine at the end. I even threatened them that I will sue Microsoft because they stole my property and they are not sending back anything. The last call promised that a special department would call me, but at the mean time the replacement pen arrived (identical with the same defect I had on the first one). I never received any call from anyone to follow up what happened.

      Now I have had the lesson with Microsoft, and will start to use Macs as all my colleagues in academia.

      If you are thinking to buy MS products, save yourself headaches and stay away. This is the word of someone that loved MS Surface and never liked the Apple line.

      You might be lucky and have no issues, but as you can see from this thread, Microsoft does not offer any support, and may eventually steal your property during dubious replacement procedures.

    • Hi folks,

      My name is David and I lead the pen and inking teams in Windows. We really appreciate the feedback both through forums and our WindowsInk@microsoft.com alias and we are reviewing each and every post and email in regards to the changes we introduced to the pen interaction model in the Fall Creator’s Update. Your feedback is critical in helping us craft the product you want and we’re working on solutions that enable greater flexibility in how your pen works across applications and controls.

      Again, we’re grateful for your feedback and patience as we progress here and we’ll keep our community of valued pen users and developers updated in a timely manner.

      – Thanks, David

    • @David A., it’s good to hear this issue recognised by the team in charge and we can’t wait to see a solution for it.
      Hope this will be soon and at least as good or even better than what we had before this questionable change.

    • Thanks @James M for delivering as promised, bringing this to attention to the right team. And thanks @David A. for responding.

      Luckily I was able to roll back to 1703 for and defer feature updates. But looking forward to seeing this fixed as I’m very keen on using my daily web apps in the updated edge browser in FCU.

      I’m in a bit of a limbo at the moment. edge is my fav browser because how well it handles pen, but need the 1709 version as some web apps i use require CSS Grid layout, web Assembly and other features not available in the 1703 version.

      Hoping for a fix soon, and if you have any focus groups where pen centric “creators” (not consumers) can sign up to give early feedback I’d be happy to join so I don’t get any nasty surprises like this in the future.

    • i dont share your joy. We report issue on production. A serious issue and they tell us that they read feedback?

      WTF???

      They are thinking how to make it great for us?

      well I can tell you that they will try to fix it in major release. Because they dont really care.

      Pen users must be huge minority that they can afford having a few angry customers who will walk away sadly.

    • Hi David,
      It is very nice to hear that this concern has reached the right team!

      That being said though, your response is not exactly what I would hope. Your comment, as others from MS still shows no understanding that something has gone wrong. It should not be hard to recognize that this change had unintended consequences (see the obvious bug I mentioned with press and hold to right click) and was implemented poorly.

      In response to that, it would be really nice to see an acknowledgement of the failure, and a commitment to ensure that changes in behavior come with OPTIONS in the future. I understand not wanting to confuse average users with pages of options for pen behavior, but this is a crucial change that fundamentally alters the behavior of thousands of users devices.

      Instead of any response like this, we are told we will be kept updated. While that is a positive thing, it falls very short in terms of repairing the trust that has been lost with this change.

      I am happy to patiently wait for changes, but this was implemented and criticized in July of last year, and without a commitment to giving users options, we have no idea if the update we’re waiting for will be better or worse.

      Changes in behavior can’t be bad when they include options, what we’re seeing here though is a forced change that has broken existing settings. I see no way that this change cannot be viewed as objectively bad. If it were optional, it would certainly be a net positive as it was intended, allowing people to use their device in new ways that they prefer!

      Again, thanks for your response here, I’m excited to see improvements. Not meaning to sound too critical, I’m just hoping to clarify the issue many have with this change, and what we would like to see next time that a change in behavior is proposed for such a personal input device.

      -Andrew

    • I concur, platitudes are no longer enough, please MS just rather you accept the fact there is issues, front up with a fix or even better undo the changes then sort

    • Concur with this issue. Furthermore, no longer being able to “flick” to copy, paste, or whatever else, is a major downgrade. I loved that feature and have been missing it ever since the FCU.

    • Re. Charles R.

      Glad I’m not alone in rueing the hole punched through our day to day productivity by breaking pen flicks following FCU.

      As I’ve already pointed out that single issue, disregarding all other serious effects, perfectly illustates the lack of thought and care behind this changed.

      An analogy is a car maker that decides to deprecate indicator signalling. If you remove the indicator stalk altogether there is no doubt as to the intention. If however the maker leaves the stalk in position but it no longer controls the indicators, drivers would rightly be angry and demand swift action.

      The Pen flcks control panel can still be opened via settings and ostensibly customised but as we know FCU renders the action of flicking null and void. How did this pass through MS quality control?

      With regards team leader David reaching out in recognition this is a welcome first step. Given the legendary MS bureaucracy I didn’t imagine we were ever going to get an immdiate resolution to our pain. It’s fair to take him at his word and await his next update, which I’d hope given the length of time this forum alone has been airing this grievance, since last October, is within the next one to two weeks at most.

      We need to be told what the idea behind this change was, it has never been explained, as there appears only negative effects with no counter balancing enhancements. Someone must have thought it worthwile to instigate the change and users should be told what the new behaviour brings to the table.

      If as most posting to this forum suspect, it is simply a change that was poorly thought through and has broken convntions and behaviour via the law of unintended consequences than MS should recognise this and find the resources to prioritise it’s roll back.

      To do neither will just antagonise loyal customers further. I wait in hopeful expectation.

    • This is not limited to Surface tablets as it affects all vendor tablets with pen/stylus support. As I mentioned in my previous post, the values returned by a call to GetMessageExtraInfo() are broken which is more than likely the root cause of all the issues with legacy applications.

      When an application message handler processes an event (e.g., WM_MOUSEMOVE), the thread receiving the message should be able to rely on the validity of the 8th bit (i.e., 0x80) to determine if the (simulated) WM_MOUSEMOVE event came from an actual mouse, a finger touching the screen, or a pen touching the screen. In Version 1709 (FCU), that bit is incorrectly indicating a finger when it should ALWAYS indicate a pen if the event was indeed generated by a pen.

      Fixing these issues via a hotfix and a quick turnaround for an FCU update (so the hotfix doesn’t get clobbered on subsequent automatic updates) is of utmost importance. Please do not ignore these complaints. If your own applications are also having problems, this is why. If you own applications are not having problems, then fixing this issue shouldn’t affect you.

      The ROOT CAUSE ANALYSIS of this problem is insufficient regression testing by an isolated group that has no business making changes in core functionality without fully understanding the ramifications of such a change. Just because YOU don’t use a particular bit (as described in your own MSDN documentation) does not mean that others don’t either. Please refer to the following articles:

      Microsoft has broken the extra information that is associated with each windows message as described in the following MSDN link:

      GetMessageExtraInfo
      https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms644937%28v=vs.85%29.aspx?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396

      The input driver has been setting the extra information value for mouse events (WM_MOUSEMOVE, etc.) relative to the following MSDN article to allow applications to detect and decipher which devices generated specific events:

      System Events and Mouse Messages
      https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms703320(v=vs.85).aspx

    • Re Tim,

      Could you dm me at lawlesshome(at)gmail.com.

    • @David A. Another think. I’ve seen feedback hub posts complaining about the new behaviour 7 months old when insiders noticed it. How come no-one has reacted and done anything about it? There were some fixes for specific apps like photoshop.

      That’s not a good solution. Waiting for complains and then manually whitelist apps to not use pen scrolling on your end for every app where it’s not working as intended?

      I don’t really use insider previews anymore and gladly wait for official release so I don’t have to deal with these kind of problems.

      Now I had to revert back to 1703 and set it to current branch for business, and I think I’ll leave it at that from now, because these kind of major bugs or bad design decisions shouldn’t go live to the public.

      You’ve had months and months of feedback already regarding the new pen behaviour. There’s tons of complains in feedback hub, forums, support pages etc, so why aren’t you doing anything about it until now? That’s my biggest question.

    • I encountered this same problem. While I was looking at the contents, I once again understood how incompetent they were. They should not make a stylus. fool.

    • You know whats funny? Yesterday I sent an email to amazon team that their service has a bug. I described it and attached screenshot. l even told them that l have trial…

      I received no response at all. Then this morning app received an update and the bug was gone.

      This is how we are listening and reading your feedback actually looks like!

    • I suspect the real loss for MS in this respect will be the loss of many truly devoted evangalists, who act as unpaid, brand ambassadors, cheerleaders and fan boys for a feature that (until FCU) was still light years ahead of the competition.

      Who among those posting to this forum hasn’t on one or more occassions waxed lyrical to a colleague, friend or family member about the many, many benefits using a pen with Windows delivers.

      Would anybody recommend using the pen in its current guise. Who, after this debacle will be quick to extoll its virtues once again.

      Such a shame.

    • @Patrick L.

      I am not a Microsoft evangelist. I was just happy the MS started to finally produce an advanced and easy OS like Windows 10. I was also happy that they could produce a successful piece of hardware like the Surface. But ironically experience told me that Surface was just surface. All you need to do with Microsoft is scratch the surface and find out massively irresponsible customer care (pathological liars, I would dare to say), and irresponsible engineers that break good functionality and need months to fix it.

      To make my point, that this is not about evangelic MS users, you can just read the many comments above. Among others, there was a girl with a motor handicap, who used the pen to overcome her limitations. The functionality that these engineers have broken is affecting not just evangelists, but everyone, including scientists, artists, engineers, and even with medical issues.

    • Hello everyone. Microsoft has created a Collection in the feedback hub regarding this issue. So far 99 upvotes. Make sure you go there, upvote and add your comments. Hopefully they will revert this change or add option sooner rather than later.

      Link: https://aka.ms/Bltdx5

    • Still no fix? No ETA? No plan? How much longer MS?

    • The problem is Microsoft and the WindowsInk team don’t think it’s broken. They just think we don’t like the new functionality they implemented.

      The idea of completely redesigning how something as integral as the keyboard or mouse works wouldn’t be allowed, but the pen input process doesn’t qualify at the same level as the other input methods. Which is a shame, because so many have been using the pen for so long. Yes, many people asked for “Use the Pen to Scroll” functionality. And it should be a choice. Just like Lenovo gives me the choice to automatically use the function keys as function keys or as the volume/brightness/microphone buttons. They gave me a choice, not eliminated the function keys.

      However, what the pen input team has done is akin to eliminating the function keys on the keyboard altogether, in favor of the control keys. Simply not something that should be done. They don’t see it this way, they don’t understand the user base, and they only listened to the input from people with their nice shiny Surfaces who really never even use the function keys…

      IMHO.

      -Michele

    • The ongoing fingerpointing between MS and WACOM is a shame - as a graphics professional it seems I need to go back to apple as I am no longer able to work in a proper fashion with my equipment. I cannot afford to watch nothing happening. There is multiple peers that experience similar issues - regardless if ink is switched off or not. As stated previously it is a shame that this is now going on for over 3 months with no progress …

    • Oliver, 3 months is being kind. Don’t forget that this was introduced and criticized in JULY 2017. 3 months ago is just when they decided to push it to all users.

      The fact that the Microsoft Edge forum is the only place we have received any response or attention from MS, shows just how far the Ink team is willing to go to completely ignore issues. They keep pointing us to email and the feedback hub, both of which are non-public avenues to express our issues.

      I had hoped that with the surface line, microsoft would be taking some responsibility for the pen’s functionality, rather than the bounce back and forth between MS and wacom, but apparently all it has done is given MS the desire to completely break existing functionality, and then do all they can to ignore their users.

    • I have the same pen problems but for the moment have been able to roll back the update so my system is still usable. If the pen is not fixed I guess I’ll need to look at Apple. I have been posting on Twitter both on the @windowsink and @surface to make the problem a bit more public - especially for people thinking of purchasing a new Surface.

    • @MMJ you cant be more far from truth. Surface devices are completely fcked up by this change. Surface PEN became a stupid piece of shit that hangs on its magnet on my screen.

      this fcking update completely destroyed its behavior. It became 11th finger, BUT completely unreliable finger. EG. I can use it to navigate around yes… but after a while it gets fcking stuck and I cant even click and open hyperlinks anymore, because it does NOT register it as click at that location.

      I will never ever buy a surface product after this experience. I was in live with this device from the first day and actually started to write with hand which I completely forgot after 20+ years of computing input.

      But MS with this update took it away from me and they dont care that they broke it.

      So… I made my research and ultimately swapped to Linux Mint which allows me to use the pen the way I used to. The problem is that I can not utilize buttons on the PEN so it is a mouse without right click which slows me down a bit, but it is still much better than current piece of shi which Fall Creator update became.

      W10 right now is good platform for NON touch screen devices which is shame.

      I am really for my anger, but MS comeone you push me so hard!

      The sad truth is that the actual fix for this bullshit update may come in spring not earlier.
      Windows INK team you guys are fucking morons and your QA should really I mean REALLY be fired.

    • Why was Staedtler allowed to make the Noris Digital Stylus if it was to be impossible to select text with it?

      Please at least provide an option to return to the original behavior.

    • Why was Staedtler allowed to make the Noris Digital Stylus if it was to be impossible to select text with it?

      The cynical answer is MS has no interest in supporting Wacom products having chosen N-Trig as their pen solution. If Wacom wish to produce a stylus without a barrel switch that is their concern. I say this as the proud owner of a Staedtler stylus.

      This view, if correct, is however extremely short-sighted on the part of MS because pen adoption is so small a segment of the overall market. Everyone who wishes to see this input method grow should be looking to enhance the benefits of stylus input, regardless of N-Trig or Wacom build, which of course FCU des not.

      Putting all cynicism to one side the lack of a barrel switch is completely irrelevant, as already pointed out by others, because the broken nature of FCU means that even those pens featuring a barrel switch are unable to function correctly.

      FCU is broken and stylus choice does not mend it.

      It’s now three weeks since David A stated;

      we’ll keep our community of valued pen users and developers updated in a timely manner.

      Given the pain this is causing creators how much longer should we be expected to patiently wait to find out whether MS will roll this back or decide to stick with their change and let us know we need to get used to it.

      Please stop keeping your customers in the dark, it is extremely poor customer service, if not just a plain discourtesy.

    • “We’ll keep our community of valued pen users and developers updated in a timely manner.”
      Ha! That was a month ago now. Since then, not a peep from MS. Great customer service. Shows clearly how “valued” the community of pen users really is to MS.

    • Hi Everyone,

      I have been trying in vain to fix the pen scrolling problem, because it prevents EditRight Software from functioning properly in the latest 1709 version of Windows (Fall Creators Update).

      As a result, I understand very well the anger and frustration you have all demonstrated in your posts when it comes to how Microsoft has failed to respond in a timely fashion to acknowledging and providing a solution to the pen scrolling problem.

      I have spent over 20 years developing a better way to edit content on a Windows Tablet using an integrated pen.

      My solution is called EditRight Software the ONLY gesture-based software ever designed to actually be more efficient than using an editing toolbar for performing editing functions to a block of text.

      I would appreciate it very much if you would go to my website: http://www.naturalinputsolutions.com/trial-version.html and ask for a trial version of my software for the purpose of evaluating it.

      All you have to do is provide your first and last name and a valid e-mail address then I will e-mail you a link where you can download a free 30-day trial version of EditRight Software.

      Important: You must still be running the previous 1703 version of Windows and NOT the present 1709 version of Windows (Fall Creators Update) in order to use EditRight Software.

      Reason: As stated above, the pen scrolling problem broke the functionality of my product in the latest 1709 version of Windows (Fall Creators Update).

      I really need your honest feedback when it comes to my editing software.

      Therefore, I would appreciate it very much if you would take the time to request, download, install and evaluate my software and let me know if EditRight Software actually represents a better way to edit content on your Windows Tablet using an integrated pen.

      Sincerely,

      Sean Maxted, President and CEO
      Natural Input Solutions Inc.
      http://www.naturalinputsolutions.com

    • One strange thing, for me, a bog standard ordinary user, I can use the pen in Googleearth to drag the picture round, street view works fine, but try it on a web site, still nothing, have to sit and wait for the landscape picture to scroll round on it’s own.

    • Attention Sean Maxted, if there was a way to go back to 1703 then I would gladly test run your software unfortunately I can not so left with a useless expensive pen, and the tablet is hopeless using fingers, so useless now, way to go MS you destroyed my surface usefullness and negates there marketing, so false, going to speak to a lawyer, thinking a lot here may join me sue the twats at MS, as this is utterly pathetic

    • How do you want to convince customers to use edge browser if you ignore people voice? You want to end up like nokia? Thats what you want? We are just waiting for someone to come with desktop android and smack you in your face.

    • Heh anyone still have hopes?

      Surface is a dead product line already…
      Therefore they will not invest time and money to make a few fools happy.

      It would be more likely that Samsung would make their version of Linux that would support their S-pen…

    • Fortunately for me I use a Wacom tablet so I’m able to completely turn off Windows Ink in the settings, so I’m not quite as angry as the rest of you. But in recent days it turned itself back on again! Then it was back to all the stupid scrolling and not being able to select things. It reminded me all over again that zero progress has been made on this issue.

    • Well I have a Wacom tablet, but an older one (Intuos 2) and though I can turn off the most annoying windows ink features that disrupt Wacom functionality, the recent FCU changes cannot be turned off. The pen behaviour with scrolling/selecting in many apps is just broken. I have to use my mouse a lot more than I used to because I simply can’t click on things with my pen anymore. Such absolutely garbage. I was actually looking at buying a Surface Pro for on the move but I’m postponing that until I see some actual change.
      The fact that MS seems to be simply ignoring us now is not filling me with hope though.

    • This is a disaster.
      One more.

      I’m an early tablet pc user, since 2003. My work is on the creative side and I always thought the pen interaction had a great future. But now it seems that for every step forward there’s eventually a step backwards. I wonder if I am a dreamer, and in reality we creative users are so few, and actually most of the people that are targetted by this producto are actually elephants that can’t draw a straight line with a ruler.

      This Time, MS reached two never-seen-before achievements: on one side, they turn the pen into an eleventh R$100 finger (in case the user can’t use one of the 10 he/she already has); on the other side, there is no way to stop this update. They came up with an OS that can’t be controlled by the users, so updates are compulsive and unavoidable, and it even disables apps as will, like it happened with the sleek and snappy PDF Reader app because they want everyone to use Edge.

      There’s much more to the pen than ‘ink’ and scroll. They could have asked. Now the pen is broken in almost every single app. I can write a long list but I’ll mention just a few examples.

      • Adobe applications to create art, like Illustrator, can’t be used with the pen now
      • Music creation software like Notion or Finale: the pen can’t be used to input notes anymore.
      • Audio DAW: the pen now scrolls the views instead of allowing manipulation of the timeline.
      • Adobe Premiere: the same.
      • Any text or word processor app: It’s very hard and annoying to use the pen. One ends up attaching a mouse.

      I’m very sorry but I am tired to have MS dragging me backwards. I’ll reinstall Windows 8.1 in my surface Pro and get back the only Surface friendly OS Microsoft ever released. Too bad the elephants didn’t like it to the point they decided to burn it out.

    • To all users,

      Isn’t this the case to start a class-action lawsuit? If we all put $100 for the lawsuit we can put together what’s needed to show Microsoft what it means to loose customers and money. They sold us a product (in my case Surface Pro) that had certain functionality, then they removed that functionality causing many apps and user pipelines to fail. This is exactly like someone selling you a car and then remotely deactivating the turbo feature. The only language Microsoft will understands is legal action. Our complains have been going on for months and they don’t care about it so far.

    • The only fix is to roll back to 1703. If you can’t roll back. Here’s a post with information and links on how to download for 1703.

      http://windowsiso.net/windows-10-iso/windows-10-creators-update-1703-download-build-15063/windows-10-creators-update-1703-iso-download-standard/

      Once installed, make sure you set Current Branch for Business and defer new feature updates so they won’t automatically install 1709 again.

      We have waited long enough!!!

    • Here’s a link to a more official post explaining more detailed post with more information, for those desperate to roll back.

      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install-winpc/how-to-download-official-windows-10-iso-files/35cde7ec-5b6f-481c-a02d-dadf465df326

    • I think the Apple battery slow down issue is being litigated. I would look at who is filing those suits as this seems a similar problem. Software being used to degrade performance of consumer owned hardware. I expect it could be done on a contingency basis. However, getting this into the public domain seems paramount. Postings ondevelopment sites are not going to get as much attention as comments in the public (twitter/facebook) sphere. Especially discussing the problem in the Surface forums (@surface) where potential purchasers might be dissuaded from buying. Just my suggestion. Thanks for all the work everyone has been doing trying to find a solution.

    • Richard J, thanks for the info.
      D P, Sheila D, I understand your motives but average consumer don’t care about the pen. There were much more people asking to add “scroll with pen” then us asking to remove it.
      I don’t think this will ever be fixed. First they degraded tablet mode from great in Windows 8 to nonfunctional in Windows 10. Then the started manufacturing laptops, the started selling Surface devices without the pen for the same price. Now they almost entirely removed the pen from Windows alltogether. They just don’t care about minority of it’s users. This is the Microsoft’s future: corporate and business clients buying software subscriptions.

    • THis is not a fix Richard. If you have tablet pc with windows 10home edition you will need to disable internet connection and its a ridiculous move. The only way here is to download win8.1 ofc cracked cause microshit do not deserve a single penny and hope that kaby lake will not make problems on older os.

    • MonteR, lows don’t follow marketing rules. Any person that has suffered damage because a company or other person did something, should be compensated. It’s just an advantage that we are many, so that we can sue this ridiculous company together. If Microsoft doesn’t care about the pen users because they are in minority they should state that in the user agreements. And by the way, it might be interesting to prove in a legal context that MS shows bias towards user populations. I bet those judges would force the company to add specific points in the user agreement, which the media would love to comment.

    • I agree that the only way to have this addressed is to pass it to court…

      All MS did was posting a block full of crap. And ignored the issue completely.
      I even sent an email to Windows Central group to investigate and let MS know.

      Guess what. They didnt care either…

    • Miroslav S, I’ve also asked one editor at windows central to look at this, he even replied that he will do it - no hope either :D
      D P, there aren’t many of us. We can’t draw any attention to this problem because no one cares. I think no one even reads this thread any more. I’m already accustomed to Microsoft abandoning it’s products (i have a bunch of them collecting dust) and some of it’s customers (us) along with them. Just to gain more new ones.

    • Make some noise here, hurt MS in there pocket, make a negative review,

      https://www.microsoft.com/en-nz/store/d/surface-pen/8zl5c82qmg6b/4V0V?wa=wsignin1.0&activetab=pivot:reviewstab

      maybe then they will see there is a problem!

    • It is a good idea. I gave them 1 star to PEN and surface pro.

      Lets wreck those ratings.
      It really could finally wake them up.

      l also wrote to our news - tech News to investigate and make an article.

      Lets see what will happen.

    • and it’s another 1 star review from me on the UK site.
      Please read what we are writing Microsoft, we are not asking for the impossible, just put it back how it used to be.

    • Build 17604 still has the problem, and what’s worse is the “hold down barrel button to select” bodge UI doesn’t work anymore, too. No way at all to select text with a “Windows Ink” pen.  Here’s a video: https://twitter.com/adamzea/status/968518722188206080

    • Added my 1-star review too.

    • Agree with so much written here. I have little hope. Sadly, the Pen is flawed by a self-sabotting strategy. I am an early tablet PC user and the problem have always been the same: Big promises for creative people, destroyed by the desire of the vast majority of users that don’t care about the pen. They sell tablet-pcs or the Surface Pro by showing cool videos of several artistic and creative things that can be done, because everyone wants to be artistic, but real artists usually have little money, so business users that is. And business users rarely have any artistic talent so the pen is just a fancy gadget to show off. Therefore, “Creators” is just a fancy name for the end of all artistic abilities the pen can have, that get in the way of elephant-handed users.
      I installed Windows 8.1 for the time being.

    • I just installed the latest Windows Insider Preview yesterday and now the behavior is reverted Back to what it was. At least text selection in apps I use does not require me to push the Button anymore. THANK YOU MICROSOFT!! you dis it and listined your customers. Great Job!!

    • This is good news, but certainly not a good job.

      • poor QA
      • poor insider program results - how is it even possible that they didnt highlight this in the email about latest insider build???
      • poor communication towards customers
        They were making changes yet than didnt bother to let their “valued” customers know anything!
      • It took then 3/4 of year to fix CRITICAL bug!

      l am really sorry but MS did such a bad job with pen - where they crippled my productivity so bad that l just cant trust them anymore.

      I will install insider build but will aim to complete transition elsewhere.

      No matter how l love surface l can not afford to be crippled at business like this ever again.

      MS agility and fast reaction are keys in modem world.

      If you wont change that AND communication towards customers then you will fall.

      for personal use almost nobody needs a computer and every service you have actually have an alternative.

      Good Luck

    • How about pen scrolling? can you switch it off now? or it no longer scrolls by default? I’m I’m gonna be a bit cautious and not upgrade until those changes hit current branch.

    • Likewise waiting for this to hit RTM.

      Would be nice to hear from David A. (assuming IPB 17618 has fixed the pen issue) as on a cursory read through of what improvement it makes there is no specific mention of any pen fix.

      Having gone through the hassle of a roll back I’m not switching to a flaky IPB.

    • @Juha K., which build do you have? 17115.1 and 17618 both still have the pen scrolling problem for me! Which tablet are you using?

    • To Whom It May Concern:

      Starting with Windows 10 build 17110, Microsoft is putting users in control of their pen experience with legacy applications.

      Therefore, update your Windows build to an RS4 Insiders build. You can learn more about that here: https://insider.windows.com/en-us/

      By executing the following command from an elevated command line (DOS Prompt), the next time any legacy application starts it will get the prior pen behaviour from the Windows 10 Anniversary Update.

      “reg add HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Pen /v LegacyPenInteractionModel /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f”

      Anytime you want to switch legacy applications back to the behaviour introduced in the Windows 10 Fall Creator’s Update, execute this:

      “reg add HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Pen /v LegacyPenInteractionModel /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f”

      After you return the pen behaviour to legacy pen behaviour using the above steps, I would appreciate it very much if you would download, install and try out EditRight Software and let me know what you think about my software.

      http://www.naturalinputsolutions.com/trial-version.html

      EditRight Software is gesture-based software that allows a user to quickly and accurately edit content on a Windows Tablet with an integrated pen.

      Sincerely,

      Sean Maxted, President and CEO
      Natural Input Solutions Inc.
      http://www.naturalinputsolutions.com

    • Attention Harry P., you do not have to go back to 1703, but forward to 1803 and use the above instructions to return to legacy pen behaviour. You finally get a chance to try out my software. Thanks, Sean.

    • Any info about non legacy apps like Edge? I do not under any circumstance in any app or even in windows explorer scroll with the pen.

      I’ve been using edge for ages, and it’s been my favorite go to browser, just because it handled pen very well. If there will be no option to turn off scrolling, I will be forced to switch browsers eventually.

      At least we’re seeing some progress but it’s not enough…

      Pen scrolling is a retarded concept to begin with concept as it will interfere functions like drag and drop, object manipulation and other stuff, used by many web-apps. Which means edge will be useless if you’re working online in web-apps.

    • To Whom It May Concern:

      I really need feedback about EditRight Software. I have worked on this project for over 20 years with the goal of providing a fast and accurate way of performing Word Processing on a Windows Tablet with an integrated pen. Therefore, I would very much appreciate anyone willing to try out EditRight Software and provide me with feedback.

      Thanks,

      Sean.

    • Hi Ricard, just upgrade to the latest version of RS4 (Windows version 1803) available from Windows Insider and go to the DOS prompt and execute the line "reg add HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Pen /v LegacyPenInteractionModel /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f” and the pen will behave as it did, before you updated to Windows Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update).

      Thanks, Sean.

      PS. Do not forget to download, install and try out EditRight Software, after returning the behaviour of the pen to legacy pen behaviour.

    • Hi Ricard, One would not consider Microsoft Word 2016 installed from Office 365 as a legacy app. Yet the pen scrolling problem impacted that application. After performing the above steps indicated, the behaviour of the pen reverted to how it behaved in Windows 1703 and before. Thanks, Sean.

    • Hi Ricard, I can still scroll with the pen in Microsoft Edge, even with the solution in place, where I was not able to scroll in Microsoft Edge in Windows 1703. Therefore, I do not think it prevents pen scrolling in Microsoft Edge. But check it out yourself to verify. Thanks, Sean.

    • I need to select and mark text in Chrome, which I used to do with a simple selection and click before. Is this behavior recovered in the solution proposed by Sean, or is the pen still used to scroll?

      Second question, how long does typically take for Moronsoft to push the insider version to a stable version? I have always had bad experience with insider updates.

    • Thanks for the information Sean M, I’m going to stick with 1703 until they fix it properly.

      Properly means, when current branch has a proper option in settings menu to use old behaviour across all apps.

    • Just tested that registry edit fix in build 17120. It removes the pen scrolling in File Explorer and other Win32 apps, but the problem remains in the Microsoft Edge browser. You still can’t select text or pan 360 VR photos/videos with the pen (especially if it has no right-click button).

    • Thanks for the tests Adam L.

      Did you test chrome as D.P mentioned above? or firefox perhaps? Edge used to be the best browser option for pen users by far, but not anymore probably.

      I think chrome jumped on the pen scrolling band wagon and have their own built in one.

      Firefox has some quicks with firing the touch keyboard when tapping input boxes with a pen i believe. If you have any bluetooth keyboard connected it doesn’t fire touch keyboard at all unless you change some setting in flags. But then it fires they keyboard all the time, even if you click the input boxes with a mouse.

      Opera I don’t think they support pen very well at all.

      So currently i’m guessing there are no browsers that work well pen, for working with web-apps etc.

    • At least i know chrome has pen scrolling even in 1703, so that browser is out of the question.

      Some other browser candidates might be Vivaldi, and UC browser. UC browser UWP from the windows store, seems to be a skinned version of edge though, so not very high hopes there.

    • Bah! Pen scrolling still happens in Vivaldi with the registry switch on build 17120, but yeah it also has that problem on 1703 (as does Chrome). I think Vivaldi and Opera are based on Chromium which probably has that awful pen-scrolling feature built into it.

    • Firefox it is then. I might as well get used to it being my primary browser, and file some bugs, so they can sort out the touch keyboard bugs.

      The only thing firefox need to change really is to check whether a pen, finger or mouse is touching the input box, besides from that firefox seems to be okay, even text selection.

    • Yep, I just installed FireFox Developer Edition in my 17120 virtual machine and content selection with a Windows Ink enabled pen (plus that registry hack) works really well.

    • That’s good to know that at least some browser still has proper text selection & pen functionality with that registry hack.

      I’ll be praying that Firefox doesn’t jump on the pen scrolling band wagon, by the time I’m forced to update from 1703.

      If that’s the case, I’ll quit my design job, sell my Surface and start growing oranges instead. I like working on a tablet, with a pen. I don’t wanna sit at a desk with a mouse and keyboard whole day. that’s sooo 1997…

    • Internet Explorer 11 on 17120 works really well too. :)
      Yeah, I think the only choice for professional pen-based computing is now the Wacom products since they made extremely useful driver software where you can disable the Windows Ink features on an app by app basis thus reverting to the “WinTAB” stylus interface which is older, but still works really well in most graphics programs. Wacom has a few computers that run Windows 10 now (That Cintiq Pro Engine is really nice!) and HP has an awesome ZBook X2 mobile workstation that also uses the Wacom tech (and highly customizable driver). But all of those are a bit more expensive than all of the tablets that use Microsoft’s NTrig pen interface like the Surface products.

    • Pardon the insistence, but I am only interested on Chrome (which has the Diigo extension I need) when using the Surface pen. Does anyone know if I can select text with the pen on Chrome by simply putting the pen on the screen (without pressing the side button) if I go on 17120 and apply Sean’s fix?

      I used to be able to do this normally until around September, before Moronsoft destroy the pen function.

      Thanks for any help.

    • Hey D P,

      I’m currently running chrome on Windows 10 (no insider build). Go to chrome://flags and disable the Direct Manipulation Stylus option.

      This allows me to do my work, but does introduce a few quirky behaviors in Chrome (ie I can’t close chrome with the pen, I have to touch the x for it to work). I don’t know what compatibility this will have with your needed extension but it may be a possible interim fix. Let me know if it works for you.

    • Andrew, where have you been before, man. That fixed the issue and now I can use highlighting in Chrome just as before. I don’t have the problem with closing Chrome, pressing X with the pen closes it without a problem. I also tried a quick test on GMail and can actually open individual emails from the list. So far so good.

      Many thanks.
      D.P.

    • Glad it works for you! Ricard P posted it near the top of this thread, so I don’t want to take credit :)

    • Hi Ricard J.,

      You say that you are still using Windows 1703.

      I assume you have MS Word 2016 installed from Office 365.

      If the above is true, then I would deeply appreciate it if you would download, install and try out the free 30-day trial edition of EditRight Software.

      http://www.naturalinputsolutions.com/trial-version.html

      Just try it out and let me know what you honestly think about it.

      I really need feedback from independent third party users to see if the software that I have developed is of benefit to users of the Surface Tablet.

      I have been working on my solution for a very long time and would appreciate your honest and unbiased opinion of my software.

      Thanks,

      Sean.

    • Hi Adam L.,

      I would also appreciate it very much if you would also download, install and try out my software and provide me with your honest appraisal of my software.

      http://www.naturalinputsolutions.com/trial-version.html

      Thanks,

      Sean.

    • To Whom It May Concern:

      The registry hack that I provided to everyone was in turn provided to me by David Abzarian the head of the pen and ink team for Windows.

      I gave a presentation of EditRight Software to David Abzarian and other representatives of Microsoft at Microsoft Headquarters (Building #88) in Seattle on July 14th, 2017.

      Thanks,

      Sean.

    • So, let me get this straight…
      I just received an email from Microsoft Windows Insider programme, that mentions the next a new "public Windows 10 release just around the corner". The word “pen” is mentioned exactly ZERO times in this, otherwise lengthy, newsletter.
      Then, after months of people reporting this issue and almost ZERO communication from MS, we are supposedly getting some REGISTRY HACK that may or may not work? And we have to hear about this from other people who may have at some point spoken to somebody at MS who is responsible for this. And still ZERO official communication about this registry hack, or any other intended fix or change.
      slow clapping

    • btw Sean M. I appreciate your input in this thread but could you please stop spamming about your software? Let’s keep this thread about the issue at hand which is the broken pen behaviour in Edge and Windows in general since FCU.

    • Hi Michiel,

      My understanding is that Microsoft fully intends to make ALL users aware of this registry key hack in the very near future.

      I thought my willingness to share this information in advance would be appreciated by the people on this thread.

      I understand how angry and frustrated you are about the pen scrolling problem caused by the FCU update.

      I also understand your concern about me spamming my software on this thread.

      However, before you judge me too harshly you have to know that I have spent 20 years of my life and over $150,000 CDN in developing EditRight Software.

      On November 7th, 2017, I had finally finished the definitive version of my software and was ready to put it on the market to see if I could finally start to sell it after all these years.

      That very day my Surface Tablet asked me if I wanted to update to the most recent version of Windows the Fall Creators Update.

      After installing FCU, I immediately noticed something was very wrong when I tried to use my software.

      I could no long easily select a block of text in selection mode or draw a stroke of ink in edit mode.

      FCU had broken the functionality of EditRight Software.

      Just try to imagine how you would feel if Microsoft had just made a change to their Windows OS that broke the functionality of a product that you had been working on for over 20 years.

      Not just a product, but your life’s work was in ruins, unless I could find a solution to the pen scrolling problem.

      Under normal circumstances, I would never consider spamming my product on this or any other thread, but these are not normal circumstances, after all the money spent on development, I simply have no money left to advertise my product to the wider world.

      I am asking for your understanding and the understanding of everyone on this thread for the predicament that I find myself in.

      Simply put, I am desperate for feedback about my product in order to validate my life’s work.

      Therefore, after all the sacrifice that I have made to get to this point, I hope you can understand why I pushed the bounds of propriety and promoted my software product on this thread.

      Thanks,

      Sean.

      PS. I promise this is the last posting on this thread about EditRight Software, unless someone specifically asks me about my software.

    • Hi Sean, sorry I was a bit pissed of last night when I wrote my replies…
      My issue is of course not with you and your willingness to share the information that you have. It IS appreciated. My main issue is of course with Microsoft for not communicating anything at all about this themselves (yet), even though they just sent a lengthy insider preview newsletter announcing a coming public release soon, as well as the supposed solution coming in the form of a registry hack. It does not seem to me they are taking this very seriously at all. I do appreciate you’ve worked long and hard on your software and it must be intensely frustrating for you to have core functionality broken or affected by the changes in FCU. So I’m sorry if I reacted a bit harshly.

    • Hi Michiel, I took a big chance providing this registry hack to everyone on this thread. I suspect the person who provided me with the registry hack, might not be happy that I released the information before the planned official release of the information. However, I decided that everyone on this thread had suffered enough from the pen scrolling problem brought on by FCU and that it would not be right to withhold a solution that I was able to verify solved the pen scrolling problem for legacy apps. Since you did mention my software in your post, I will ask you just one more time for a really big personal favour. Would you be willing to download, install and try out my software? http://www.naturalinputsolutions.com/trial-version.html. It won’t cost you anything (free 30-day trial) and I would really like to know your honest opinion about my software. Thanks, Sean.

    • @Sean M. I sent you an email with some feedback. Your app is a really cool idea but if it’s only to be used with Word you’re looking at a very small niche market of users that has to be: Windows user, word user, tablet user & like to write and edit text using a pen. Further feedback is in the e-mail. I’m not a Word user myself, and do most my text editing in online tools, OneNote, Code Editors, Outlook etc. If your software worked across multiple applications I would find it very useful…

    • Hi folks,

      It’s been a while since I last responded, but I have a recent post on Reddit that provides some more context in regard to controlling the pen behavior on Windows 10 with legacy Win32 applications.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/Windowsink/comments/8508fi/controlling_pen_behavior_in_windows_10/

      Hope this helps! Again, we really appreciate the feedback as we continue to enhance Windows Ink!

      – Thanks, David

    • @Sean M. thanks for your valuable input. I don’t want to sound rude but I think you are overdoing your product marketing. I use a software called StrokesPlus which has a terrible name and is also broken in Creators Update, but it is far more powerful. If… also more advanced and maybe more for power users.

      About the new Windows build, where can I get it? I signed to the Insider program but I seem to be waiting forever.

    • Hi Emilio,

      1. Windows Settings > Update and Security > Windows Insider Program

      Note: If you signed up you should have Windows Insider Program option.

      1. What kind of content would you like to receive? Active development of Windows.

      2. What pace do you want to get new builds? Fast.

      3. Click on Windows Update Option.

      4. Click on Check for Updates Button.

      Result: The latest build for RS4 should be uploaded and installed.

      I checked out StokesPlus website and YouTube video.

      StrokesPlus is a gesture ONLY based UI that requires the user to press down and hold the right click button while drawing the gesture.

      I also get the feeling that the gestures are being drawn by a mouse and not a pen.

      EditRight Software is a multi-mode gesture-based UI that handles text, gesture and punctuation symbol modes, where the user does NOT have to perform any modal shifts for selecting a block of text or initiating either the gesture or punctuation mode.

      The primary advantage of EditRight being: Where ever you pen up after selecting a block of text or pen up after clicking on the document windows to position the text insertion point, you are always in the right location to pen down and draw a gesture or one or more punctuation symbols and everywhere else outside the Blue Box or Black Circle is available for text input.

      Feel free to download, install and try out EditRight Software.

      http://www.naturalinputsolutions.com/trial-version.html

      Thanks,

      Sean.

      PS. I know I promised not to spam my software, but someone is making a direct reference to my software and I felt I needed to provide a rebutal. Also I am providing assistance that is directly related to the subject heading of the thread.

    • ok, got the new build and manually added the registry key. Costed me time and some stomach but it’s working now.

      [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Pen]
      "LegacyPenInteractionModel"=dword:00000001

      I think the whole thing is a big mistake that will force another step back for creative Surface users.

      An active pen can be a powerful tool for creative people. I realized that years ago, and my first notebook was a tc4200 Tablet pc which didn’t even have touch, and that is before iPads and tablets.

      Ultimately the tablet pcs failed Creators to favor business users, for which the pen is just a fancy, cool and eventually disposable accessory, but of course they got the money and they got the numbers, so they were a far better target than artists. The Tablet Pc line eventually died, and reincarnated years later as the Surface. And the same mistakes came back.

      The potential of the Surface line to become the ultimate creator’s machine is brilliant, but the facts have proven otherwise. Microsoft seems to be always looking for ways to make creative tasks harder to favor people that just need an expensive internet browser.

      Most people don’t draw, scribble, paint, compose music, design, lay out, edit video, animate. Most people are not ”creators” and there’s nothing wrong about that. What is wrong is to give a forced update the appealing name of Fall Creators Update when there’s nothing there to favor creative users. FCU is meant to make common users feel creative, and creators feel miserable.

      It’s a trap.

    • hey guys! i have good news. finally they made it : )
      i solved pen issue to KB4089848. go check it out

    • Are you sure? There seems to be no mention in the release notes:
      https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/4089848/windows-10-update-kb4089848

    • I installed the update, did the registry hack and now I seem to be able to select text again in Firefox, but not in Chrome or Edge. Not sure how this is supposed to be solving anything. If anything it makes things even more inconsistent and maddening.
      And they keep talking about "legacy applications". What does this even mean? The issue is not happening only in "legacy applications", the behaviour is fundamentally broken across ALL applications. There still seems to be no intent whatsoever to change the behaviour in general back from the pen panning and scrolling content, to the pen selecting and manipulating stuff.

      Emilio said it well:
      “FCU is meant to make common users feel creative, and creators feel miserable.”

    • Read David Abzarian’s Reddit posting.

      Pan/Scroll is and will continue to be the default mode. The previous behaviour is now fundamentally deprecated. As an interim transition gesture the registry tweak has been provided.

      Creative pen users should accept that fact (surely by now we’ve moved past grief and anger) and get used to this system change or switch back to mouse or switch to another OS.

      This is a repeat of the behaviour MS displayed while “improving” their phone platform. Users were left with legacy devices as Windows Phone 7 and then 8 changed its code base.

      There was no going back then and David Abzarian makes clear no going back now.

      The harsh truth is the segment we represent is too small in the scheme of things. We sit as a thin slice between hard core digital artists, using the likes of Wacom hardware, and the mass market of tablet consumers MS if hoping to persuade into picking up a pen. If that means giving them a reason to use it more often i.e. pan/scoll then so be it. The “creators” label ain’t nothing but a marketing term and does not mean MS will sacrifice the largest market segment for the segment we represent.

      I’ve just placed my order for a Wacom tablet and a Samsung Galaxy Tab S3 so I’m waving bye to Windows after 30 years use while still keeping access to the MS apps I need - apps didn’t exist 30 years ago😁 . I’m fortunate that I’m not locked into a corporate Windows environment so I appreciate not everyone can vote with their feet. But the decision has been made so best get used to it or switch because life is too short to give oneself an ulcer over a software decision.

    • It sounds like the Windows division is over budget and heading towards some layoffs before June. (https://www.petri.com/microsoft-overhauls-windows-org-names-new-leader-along-changes)
      Hopefully fixing issues, instead of adding more poorly-thought-out broken features will become the priority, but who knows.
      This article mentions the pen problems as well as others that have been coming out of WaaS, and also offers some solutions. (http://pocketnow.com/2018/03/31/windows-as-a-service)

    • I think we can think of people who should be layed off ;-)
      Also as a warning to others: “When you break a working feature without good reason, then fix it quick or else …!”

    • Andy R. They will probably show the door to the guy who’s like “I told you! I told you not everyone will like pen scrolling…”

    • Good articles. Imho Windows is finished.
      There is nothing they can do to fix broken trust.

      Satya was working hard to destroy Microsoft and his hard work finally gets some results.

      For his cloud Vision there is no place for OS.

      He wants people to move to macOS or Android and he will provide services (like office) which will support each platform.

      Azure will eventually lose to Amazone or google.

      Xbox will die in coming years as will PC gaming eventually because devs will welcome to have just PS to develop for.

      Surface brand is severely damaged thanks to Pen fck up.

      Nadella will go down in history as a man that achieved impossible. To sunk company that HAD complete monopoly in computing world… and MS had tech and SW which was so much ahead of competition…

    • Hello,

      Thank you for all the feedback. Here is an update from the Windows Ink team. Hope this helps answer your questions and concerns.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/Windowsink/comments/8bw23r/unexpected_application_behavior_with_pen_in_fall/

      Best Wishes,
      The MS Edge Team

    • Thanks for looking in to this Edge team.

      I know the new pen behaviour is not directly an edge issue, but since the new behaviour affects a lot of various web-applications and it’s quite critical that it will get a fix ASAP.

      Apart from the Text selection, the pen scrolling anti-feature can interfere with common web-apps with functionalities like:

      • Drag&Drop
      • Selection and manipulation of objects.
      • Drawing
        … to name a few.

      Here’s a list of web-apps that used to work really well with Pen input in 1703. But are now very hard to use because of the new pen behaviour.

      editor.construct.net
      figma.com
      marvelapp.com
      tinkercad.com
      onenote.com (Web Version)

      And there’s probably plenty of more web-apps where the new pen behaviour has completely broken several functions that used to work really well.

      I have also filed bugs or contacted support for some to ask for workarounds but since we’re not that many pen users that use pen for other things than casual browsing, it’s hard to get app devs to create fixes and workarounds for such a small minority that does use pen/touch instead of mouse/keyboard.

      I think it’s important that Pen input has a setting to mimic Mouse behaviour rather than touch when there is no special code to accommodate pen.

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